LORRAINE HEBBELTHWAITE
FACULTY OF LAW, UNIVERSITY OF NATAL
KZN, 3201 SOUTH AFRICA

----------------FROM WWW. NDEXONCENSORSHIP.ORG-------------------------

JUDGE WARNS LOCKERBIE WITNESS:
" If you attack the government on the radio,  I will take that very very seriously."

A U.S. District Judge sentenced Lester K. Coleman, a witness in the Pan Am 103 bombing civil case,
to time served, and a $30,000 fine.  Coleman, now a talk show host in Lexington, Ky.,
filed an affidavit  in 1991 after
fleeing to Sweden where he was granted sanctuary on humanitarian grounds.
 He voluntarily returned to the U.S. in 1996 and was immediately taken
into custody.  He is the only person in U.S. legal history to be charged
with perjury over an affidavit filed in a civil case.

Judge Thomas C. Platt warned Coleman during sentencing, "if I hear you
attacking the government on your radio show I shall take that very very
seriously."  Judge Platt also barred Coleman from speaking about his case
on the radio program.   Since Judge Platt violated his consitutional
rights,  and by so doing, departed from the plea agreement, Coleman is
filing an appeal.

Coleman said afterwards, " today was another episode in  the saga of a
five year old perjury case, based on a seven year old civil affidavit,
over a ten year old air disaster. No American can ever give up free
speech to preserve a judge's order"

Judge Platt also said from the bench, " I want to send a message to all
those inside the beltway in Washington that perjury in a civil case is
prosecuted, as this case shows."
(  Judge Platt, a Nixon appointee, was obviously challenging President
Clinton's supporters who claimed perjury in a civil case is never
prosecuted. )

Coleman, who is a former agent with the American Defense Intelligence
Agency, provoked controversy on both sides of the Atlantic by claiming
that the tragedy in which 270 people died was caused by an American drug
sting operation that went badly wrong.

Coleman claimed, according to court records, that the DEA was operating a
number of Beirut-based sting operations, averaging two per year,
involving more than 130 paid informants, which allowed controlled
deliveries of heroin from Lebanon to America. The goal was the arrest of
U.S. based drug gangs.  Several of these informants had been given CIA
"Asset" status in 1987 to lure a suspected terrorists out of Beirut an
aboard a Yacht off the coast of  Cyprus.  It was called OPERATION
GOLDENROD coordinated by the key figures in the government's Pan Am 103
investigation, namely, Oliver "Buck" Revell, Deputy Director of the FBI,
Vincent Cannistraro CIA Rome Station, and Micheal T. Hurley DEA Country
Attache, Cyprus.  Coleman suspected that it was those Lebanese drug
informants turned CIA assets who eventually provided Syria with the
intelligence used to place the bomb aboard Pan Am 103.

Coleman reportedly claimed the DEA's drug operation was infiltrated by
Iranian-financed terrorists, who had been ordered to avenge the shooting
down, mistakenly by the U.S. Navy, of an Iranian airbus in July 1988.
Instead of placing heroin on the flight, the terrorist checked in a
suitcase full of explosives.

He made the allegations in an affidavit to Pan Am during the airline's
investigation into the tragedy.  Pan Am had filed notice of legal action
against the government.  Government attorneys balked at turning over
classified documents claiming national security concerns.  Consequently,
the case was subsequently dismissed by U.S. District Judge Thomas C.
Platt in the Eastern District of New York, for lack of evidence.

It was not until Coleman reiterated his allegations in a book, some two
and a half years later, that the U.S. government responded by accusing
him of perjury.  He became the first person in U.S. legal history to ever
be charged with perjury over statements given in an affidavit in a civil
case.

At the time the book, Trail of the Octopus, was published, Coleman and
his family were already living in Sweden, granted political sancutary.
In chosing the exile route, Coleman may have had a feeling of his fate
when Big Brother decides to put the screws to you.  His supporters claim
that the charges were brought because he had contridicted the official
American view that Libya was responsible for the bombing.

But, after living in exile for six years, in failing health, and the U.S.
government pressuring Sweden to deport him, Coleman returned voluntarily
to the United States on October 11, 1996.  Alabama Governor, Forest James
paid for he and his family's tickets from Europe.  Coleman had known
James in the 70's when he was News Director for an Alabama radio station.

For five months he was held without bail, while a cancerous tumor was
growing on his collar bone, the size of a golf ball.  Coleman repeatedly
told his public defender, Abraham Clott he need medical care, but it was
not until  Vivian Shevitz,  agreed to take Coleman's case without fee,
that something was done.  Ms. Shevitiz wrote a letter to the warden at
MDC on January 13, 1997, three months after Coleman's arrival:

"I wrote on January 7 to suggest the need for immediate medical treatment
for pre-trial detainee Lester K. Coleman (inmate number 47321-019).  I
visited Mr. Coleman yesterday, and learned that essentially nothing has
been done.  A painful growth on his chest is still apparently oozing.
His T-shirt is covered with blood.
Mr. Coleman advised me that the was told on December 23rd that it would
take about two weeks for the operation.  It has been longer than that and
there is a need."

Finally, on January 21, 1997  he was operated.  The same day he was
returned to jail.  He did not see anyone from the detention centre
medical staff for 16 days.  His surgical wound became seriously infected.
 Shevitz wrote numerous letters to the court.  Finally Coleman was
returned to the hospital for an examination, accompanied by two U.S.
Marshals.  Shevitz described the hospital visit in a letter to Judge
Platt, dated February 11, 1997.

" It was not until last Thursday, February 6, that Mr. Coleman was taken
to see Dr. Beaton, at Downtown Hospital.  While Dr. Beaton refused to
tell me directly about his reaction to Mr. Coleman's condition, the two
Special Deputy U.S. Marshals who accompanied Mr. Coleman to the doctor
were willing to be forthcoming ( despite their expressed knowledge that
the system expected their silence).  Owen Flynn is a Special Deputy U.S.
Marshal who kindly spoke to me on the telephone on February 7, 1997, and
told me that before he worked in this postion, he had spent 32 years in
the State court system. He told me he was willing to tell me what he saw
and heard because he believes in this institution, never allowed a man to
be abused, and can't stand seeing anyone abused.  He told me that when he
was in the examining room with Lester Coleman on February 6, Dr. Beaton,
when first looking at the wond---from which a strong, unpleasant odor
emanated, said, in substance:  " Oh my god, look at this"...'this is
criminal'.  Mr. Flynn says that the doctor further expressed that he was
"appalled" (or that "this is appalling.")  Yesterday, on February 10,
1997, I spoke to the other Special Deputy, Joseph Ogen.

Mr. Ogen reported that the first thing he when he and his partner ( Mr.
Flynn) were preparing Mr. Coleman for the doctor on February 6th was a
"dirty bandage" and that he smelled the "foul odor".  Upon removal of the
bandage, the odor became even stronger.  According to Mr. Ogen's
description, the wound covering Mr. Coleman's left shoulder did not even
look like skin:  It was raw, looked like a piece of meat, was discolored,
full of oozing pus.

The doctor warned Mr. Coleman that, even though the wound was like that,
he would have to remove the stitches, and that it would be painful.  Mr.
Ogen said that Mr. Coleman's face showed the pain when the doctor had to
probe.  Mr. Ogen said the wound was so bad that the doctor was "provoked"
and in a sense "blew his top".  He knows that the doctor wrote orders on
the papers, which were then given to Mr. Ogen to bring back to MDC with
Mr. Coleman.

This frankly, is an outrage, as it relates to a man who is charged with
no more than perjury in an affidavit in a civil case!  Whether he "jumped
bail" or not in the past -- on another charge that hardly smacks of Jack
the Ripper - he voluntarily returned and has no money, nor energy, to go
anywhere.  He is sick with cancer.  He needs medical care.  He needs
rest. He needs to be able to prepare his case for trial at the same
time."

After Shevitz's letter to the court, charging the Justice Department with
malpractice and cruelty, Coleman was sent to a suburban hospital to
recover.  It took round the clock treatment for 11 days to clear up the
infection.  While there he was seen by resident Psychiatrist, Harvey
Berman, clinical professor of Psychiatry at New York Medical College.
Dr. Berman later wrote the court ( on September 11, 1997 )

"Mr. Lester Coleman is a patient under my care.  He has been in treatment
with me since February 28, 1997. His diagnosis is major depression.  His
symtoms include sad mood, insomnia, lethargy, difficulty concentrating,
ruminations of hopelssness, frequent thoughts of death, and nightmares
about his experiences at the Metropolitan Detention Center, where earlier
this year he received substandard medical care.  I believe that his
depression was precipitated by the way he was treated there."

Dr. Jim Swire, M.D., the spoksman for the British relatives of the
Lockerbie victims, said he was disturbed at how the U.S. authorities were
treating Coleman.  Swire wrote:

"The gross maltreatment of Coleman by the American authorities appears to
fit a pattern of the victimisation of people who challenge the official
version that Libya was solely to blame for Lockerbie."

Shevitz's continued campaign to obtain Coleman's release on bail finally
bore fruit when Assistant U.S. Attorney, Alan Vickery agreed on March 27,
1997 that Coleman could be released into the custody of his daughter,
living in up state New York.  The terms included House Arrest, wearing an
electronic bracelet, with no travel except to see a doctor and to court.
 For the next six months Coleman remained confined, but it was a level up
from the living hell of his solitary cell at MDC.  He had yet to see his
family that he left behind at Atlanta Airport almost a year earlier.

Recovering from his ordeal, Coleman and Shevitz began preparing to take
on the government, filing a host of  discovery requests for classified
documents, listed by file number and name.  It was obvious from the
detailed requests that Coleman had a real past relationship with U.S.
Military Intelligence.  Shevitz, representing Coleman for free, filed her
expenses with the court, certain she would be re-inbursed as a court
appointed lawyer would be.  Judge Platt had other ideas.  He repeatedly
denied her motion to be paid expenses, telling her to take an appeal, if
she didn't agree.  Soon she was out of pocket almost $10,000.   Towards
the end of the Summer, with not one shred of discovery from the
government, it was clear Shevitz could not continue to fund Coleman's
defense.

Finally, in early August, 1997  she reluntantly told Coleman she was
being forced to withdraw. Coleman's only alternative was the return of
the Public Defender, Abraham Clott, the lawyer who had not even bothered
to complain about his medical treatment for months.

With Clott back,  the case  ground to a halt.  Clott and his boss,
Attorney-in-Charge, Thomas J. Cancannon came to visit Coleman at his
daughter's home on August 28, 1997. Coleman has little recollection of
that day, due to his illness, but did have the
where - with - all to tape the meeting.  Clott and Concannon are heard
advising Coleman
he could grab  the very unusual Rule 11 (1)(e) deal, plead guilty and
walk free, or continue to fight and be returned to jail and face two to
three years of litigation before Judge Platt.  Even in Coleman's
distorted mental state, the choice was clear.  He had had enough, his
family had had enough, and certainly his daughter and Son-in-Law had had
enough.

He struggled with it, even up until the day before he was to go to court.
 Clott called him on September 10, 1997.  Coleman recorded the
conversation.  He is heard telling Clott of his apprehension:

Coleman: I just might walk in there tomorrow and disagree with the whole
thing...I don't know, I might do that.
Clott: If you do that....(chuckles)...you'll be remanded and face two to
three years of lititation.
Coleman: Oh, I don't think that this deal will go away any time soon.
Clott:  Yes it will.
Coleman: It will ?
Clott: I am sure it will, after tomorrow.

The following morning, September 11, 1997 he stood before Judge Thomas C.
Platt,  advised that  he would never have his day in Platt's court, and
pleaded guilty to five counts of perjury based on the affidavit he gave
in the Pan Am civil case more than six and a half years earlier.   Within
two days he was on a plane to Palm Springs, California, at government
expense, to rejoin his wife and three children.  After a month's rest he
landed a job as a daily Talk Show Host in Lexington, Kentucky.

He has recently been invited to represent the World Service Authority, a
human rights organization founded in 1954, in South Africa to attend the
50th Anniversary celebration of the signing of the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights this Summer.  SEE> www.copi.com.  A committee chaired by
Dr. & Mrs Taylor Bach of Covington, Kentucky has been formed to raise the
money to pay Coleman's legal bills.  In addition, he is considering
filing a civil claim against the U.S. Justice Department for medical
malpractice, while held in pre-trial detention.
 
 

OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT

AUDIO RECORDING:

DATE: 28 AUGUST, 1997

LOCATION: PRIVATE DWELLING/ 60 CONTINENTAL DRIVE, NEW WINDSOR, NY

SUBJECT: UNITED STATES VS LESTER K. COLEMAN, III ( CASE No. 93 CR 1067 ) (tcp)
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ( DEFENDANT ACCUSED OF PERJURY RELATED TO AN AFFIDAVIT FILED IN A CIVIL CASE APRIL 1991/ PAM AMERICAN WORLD AIRWAYS VS U.S..)

PRESENT: DEFENDANT, LESTER COLEMAN ( LC ) THOMAS CONCANNON ( TC ) CHIEF, FEDERAL DEFENDERS OFFICE/LEGAL AID SOCIETY, ABRAHAM CLOTT ( AC ) FEDERAL DEFENDER APPOINTED BY THE COURT TO REPRESENT LESTER COLEMAN

NOTE: AT THE TIME OF THIS RECORDING THE DEFENDANT WAS UNDER ELECTRONIC MONITORED HOUSE ARREST AT ABOVE ADDRESS, AND HAD BEEN SINCE RELEASE FROM FEDERAL DETENTION CENTER, BROOKLYN, NEW YORK, MARCH, 1997. HE HAD BEEN HELD AT MDC WITHOUT BAIL SINCE VOLUNTARY SURRENDER, 11 OCTOBER, 1996.

BEGINNING OF TAPE IS DISCUSSION OF PRIVILEDGED EVIDENCE COLEMAN PRESENTED RELATED TO KALID JAFAAR, A PASSENGER ABOARD PAN AM 103.

TAPE CONTINUES.....

AC> IF THE COURT OF APPEALS RULES THE CASE GO TO ANOTHER JUDGE, THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT, SURE....UGH... ON THE OTHER HAND, I...UGH...I DON'T THINK ANY OF US KNOW OF A CASE WHERE THE COURT OF APPEALS HAS DONE THAT ON MANDAMUS....

TC> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AC>BEFORE A CONVICTION.

TC>WHATEVER THEY DO IN AN OPINION, THEY MAY SUGGEST THE JUDGE REMAND AND EXCERCISE....EXCERCISE....REVIEW SOME OTHER ASPECT OF IT....USE DISCRETION TO GET OUT OF IT. THEY CERTAINLY WON'T MANDATE TO PASS IT ALONG TO ANOTHER JUDGE IN A CRITICAL OPINION. IT IN ESSENCE IS SAYING TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THAT THE JUDGE CAN'T BE FAIR.....THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SAY THAT. THEY'LL LEAVE THAT TO THE CONGRESSIONAL IMPEACHMENT PROCESS BEFORE THEY SAY A FEDERAL JUDGE IS BIASED.

LC>RIGHT...

TC>SO, IN THE VANGRAFFLIEND DISSENT, IN THE PAN AM CASE, IS THE MOST PERSONAL CHASTISMENT OF A DISTRICT JUDGE THAT I'VE EVER SEEN, SO THAT WOULD CHANGE THE CONFIGURATION.

( NOTE: THE JUDGE CHASTISED WAS JUDGE PLATT, HEARING THE COLEMAN CASE )

LC>DO YOU THINK HE IS MOTIVATED IN ANY WAY TO SAVE HIS OWN REPUTATION...BY GOING AFTER...BEING HARD ON ME AS HE HAS BEEN?

TC>NO. HIS REPUTATION....

AC>FIRST OF ALL HE'S BEEN A JUDGE FOR SO MANY YEARS...INVOLVED...

( NOTE: PLATT APPOINTED BY NIXON IN 1974 )

TC> HE'S FROM A FAMILY THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOREVER....

LC> HE'S MARRIED TO A SYMINGTON ?

TC> RIGHT....AND HIS OWN GRANDFATHER WAS SENTOR THOMAS COLLIER PLATT, AND HIS FAMILY OWNED TIFFANYS...DUTCH LAND BARONS...

AC> I DON'T THINK HE HAS ANY PERSONAL INTEREST IN YOUR....

TC> RIGHT.

LC>RIGHT.

TC>HE MAY SEE YOU AS COLORFUL IN SOME WAY...A PATRIOT IN SOME WAY...HE WILL SEE YOU AS SOMEONE LIKE A....

AC>NUTTY PROFESSOR

TC>BUT YOU LOOK ENOUGH LIKE THE KIND OF GUYS HE SEES ON THE COMMUTER TRAIN...

LC>RIGHT

TC>HE USED TO BE THE MOST IMPOSSIBLE GUY, BUT NEVER ALL THAT BAD ON WHITE BUSINESSMEN, HE'S ALOT TOUGHER ON......DRUG...

LC>THE KIND OF GUYS I WAS SPENDING MY TIME AT MDC...

TC>RIGHT.

LC>WHICH ALL OF THEM SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE...

LC>IT WAS HORRORIBLE....

AC>YOU LIKED MY FRIEND ALI WELL ENOUGH...

LC>YEAH.

(NOTE: CONVERSATION REVERTS TO SMALL TALK ABOUT COLEMAN FELLOW INMATES & MDC LIFE

LC>MARTINEZ, AUSTIN AND COTTON ARE THE THREE GUARDS WHO PUT ME IN SOLITARY..... BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID I WAS NOT TRUSTWORTHY, YOU KNOW? 33 DAYS IN SOLITARY BECAUSE OF MY BACKGROUND.....

( NOTE: THREE GUARDS CHARGED FOR BRIBERY AND SMUGGLING HEROIN )

TC> WOW! WELL WE ARE NOT DONE WITH ALL THAT STUFF....

LC> ARE THERE GOING TO BE MORE INDICTMENTS?

TC>NO WE DON'T THINK SO, BUT THE PROSPECTS OF JAIL....THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT....TO TRY AND MAKE SENSE OUT OF THIS....

AC> IF YOU WANT TO MOVE TO THE UNPLEASENT PART QUICKLY....YOU KNOW....WE'VE GOT LOTS OF PROBLEMS, BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE COMMON SENSE POINT OF VIEW, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN?
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT I FEEL SHOULD HAPPEN...BUT TRY TO FIND RATIONALITY...WHAT JUDGE PLATT IS LIKELY TO DO.....
IN A WEEK OR SO I WILL HAVE TO MAKE AN APPLICATION TO ( ALLOW YOU) TO MOVE TO CALIFORNIA. THAT IS AN APPLICATION I AM WILLING TO MAKE....I AM NOT TERRIBLY OPTOMISTIC. THERE IS JUST A WHOLE SET OF PROBLEMS. FIRST OF ALL THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO OPPOSE IT....

TC>THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE VERY VIGOROUS IN RESISTING....

AC>I HAVE ALREADY TALKED TO VICKERY ( U.S. PROSECUTOR ).... HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT HOW YOU ARE GOING TO TRAVEL BACK AND FORTH FOR COURT....

LC>NEWARK TO LA IS 126 DOLLARS !

AC>AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SUPERVISING SO FAR AWAY....

TC>THESE THINGS DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE...THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IF YOU WANTED OUT OF HERE YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT IN A HURRY. MOST OF THESE THINGS LIKE ELECTRONIC SURVIELLANCE IS A WAY FOR THE COURT TO COVER IT'S ASS RATHER THAN ASSURE YOUR PRESENCE...I MEAN IF YOU WERE TO DISSAPEAR TOMORROW.....

AC>THE BOND YOU ARE UNDER NOW IS COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON YOU LIVING WITH THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED IT...AND THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED IT BEING IN A FINANCIAL POSITION....

( NOTE: COLEMAN WAS UNDER ELECTRONIC MONITORED HOUSE ARREST IN HIS DAUGHTER'S HOME. HER HUSBAND WAS BEING TRANSFERRED...COLEMAN'S WIFE AND CHILDREN WERE WAITING FOR HIM IN CALIFORNIA . THEY HAD NOT SEEN HIM FOR ALMOST ONE YEAR )

TC>IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

AC>....TO INSURE THE BOND.

LC>LINDA ( WOMAN IN CALIFORNIA CARING FOR COLEMAN'S FAMILY ) SAID SHE WOULD SIGN THE BOND. SHE'S IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE PEOPLE HERE ARE....

AC>I'M GOING TO HAVE TO TALK TO HER, WHICH I HAVEN'T DONE YET. WHAT'S HER RELATIONSHIP TO YOU?

LC>SHE IS A PERSONAL LONG TIME FRIEND...FAMILY FRIEND AND SHE IS WHERE MY FAMILY IS LOCATED. SHE IS IN PALM DESERT CALIFORNIA.

AC>THEY ARE LIVING IN HER HOUSE?

LC>IN HER HOUSE.

AC>WITH HER?

LC>WITH HER.

AC>UGH...SHE'S GOING TO BE WILLING TO APPEAR BEFORE JUDGE PLATT TO PERSONALLY GUARENTEE....

LC>SHE CAN APPEAR BEFORE ANOTHER JUDGE LIKE PETE DID ( SON-IN-LAW WHO COSIGNED BAIL BEFORE MAGISTRATE IN NORTH CAROLINA )

AC> YEAH ( BEGRUDGELINGLY )....WELL....WE WILL SEE...

TC>WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS....

AC>WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS AND IT'S VERY DIFFERENT WHEN IT'S NOT FAMILY. I'M JUST TELLING YOU THIS IS AN UP HILL BATTLE...SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM....

LC>WHAT'S THE ALERNATIVE>

AC>MDC ( JAIL )

LC>HE WON'T PUT ME BACK THERE...DR BERMAN WON'T ALLOW IT!

( DOCTOR WHO DIAGNOSED COLEMAN WITH POST TRAMATIC STRESS DISORDER DUE TO MALTREATMENT AT MDC )

AC>DR. BERMAN IS NOT A FEDERAL JUDGE.

LC>DR. BERMAN WAS THE COUNSEL FOR ME WHEN I WAS AT MDC !

TC>RIGHT.

LC> SO THE GOVERNMENT PAID HIM...HE'S A GOVERNMENT WITNESS...

AC>IF YOU REQUIRE MEDICAL TREATMENT JUDGE PLATT WILL ORDER YOU INTO EITHER BUCKNER OR SPRINGFIELD ( FEDERAL PRISON HOSPITALS FOR CONVICTED INMATES )

TC> YOU KNOW THIS...YOU KNOW THIS...WHAT THEY WILL DO? YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR...I MEAN WE DON'T AGEEE THAT IT WOULD BE RIGHT....BUT WE BELIEVE...WE ARE STILL GOING TO BE DEALING WITH PLATT, AND WE ARE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH VERY STRONG GOVERNMENT RESISTANCE....

LC>( COMMENT DESCRIBING A POTENTIAL WITNESS )

AC>PERHAPS IF THIS GENTLEMAN IS WILLING TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES AND TESTIFY AT TRIAL....PERHAPS IF IT WOULD JUSTIFY SOME KIND OF INFERENCE...RIGHT? WHO KNOWS?
I JUST....WE CAN GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS STEP BY STEP BUT THE PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE....

LC>WHAT IF I WERE TO GO TO CAROLINA...WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

AC>I AM TOLD THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO WORK OUT...

LC> I WANT TO GO HOME.

AC> YEAH?

LC>OKEY?

TC>TO VIRGINA?

LC> I DON'T LIVE IN VIRGINIA !

TC> I'M SORRY....CALIFORNIA.

LC>I WANT TO GO HOME. THIS HAS BEEN A YEAR NOW. WE ARE SITTING HERE WITH NO DISCOVERY....ZERO!

AC>LET'S SAY...

LC> NOW YOU WANT ME TO GO BACK TO JAIL !

TC>WE DON'T WANT YOU TO GO BACK TO JAIL...BUT LISTEN TO THE BIG...LISTEN TO THE BIGGER PICTURE....

AC>LET'S SAY YOU TAKE THE CASE TO TRIAL....

TC>I DON'T DOUBT TIS IS TORTURE. I WOULD BE LOOKING OUT THE WINDOWS HERE AND BE NUTS. THERE WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH PROZAC...THEY'D HAVE TO GIVE IT TO ME I.V.

AC>IN ORDER....UNLESS VICKERY IS SUCCESSFUL IN CONVINCING WASHINGTON TO DECLASSIFY THE MATERIALS, WHICH HASN'T HAPPENED YET, RIGHT? UGH, WE CAN'T BEGAN THE DISCOVERY UNTIL I GET SECURITY CLEARANCE. NOW SUPPOSEDLY, I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH THE PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON YESTERDAY...UGH...THEY SAID THEY WOULD OVERNIGHT ME THE FORMS....

LC>FOR YOU TO FILL OUT...

AC>FOR ME TO FILL OUT...

LC>TAKES ANOTHER FUCKING SIX MONTHS AFTER THAT....

AC>THAT'S RIGHT. IT TAKES SIX MONTHS AFTER THAT....AND APARENTLY WHAT'S NECESSARY IS A TOP SECRET SECURITY CLEARANCE...WHO KNOWS? SO IT'S SIX MONTHS FROM NOW BEFORE I CAN EVEN....

LC> WE DON'T HAVE ONE SCRAP OF PAPER....WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANYTHING FOR YOU TO LOOK AT....

AC>THE POINT IS IF YOU WERE REMANDED YOU COULD BE SITTING IN PRISON FOR EASILY FOR A YEAR BEFORE ANYTING HAPPENS....

LC>ON A PERJURY CHARGE ON A CIVIL AFFIDAVIT !

AC>NOW, YOU KNOW HOW PLATT CONDUCTED THE PAN AM CASE, RIGHT?

LC> YEAH.

AC>NO MATTER WHAT THE MERIT OF YOUR POSITION, RIGHT? THE ONE THING WE KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY IS THE BEST YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IN A TRIAL BEFORE PLATT IS TO PRESERVE OBJECTIONS TO RAISE ON APPEAL. THAT WE WILL BE GOOD AT, RIGHT? bUT YOU KNOW PERFECTLY WELL THAT EVERY SHRED OF A DEFENSE HE'S GOING TO PRECLUDE IN THE SAME WAY HE DID IN THE PAN AM CIVIL TRIAL, RIGHT?

LC>HE CAN LEGALLY DO THAT UNDER THE CONSITUITION OF THE UNITED STATES?

AC>WE COULD ARGUE THAT HE'S WRONG. BUT WHAT I'M TELLING YOU IS THE PLACE WHERE THIS IS HEADED WOULD BE ARGUMENTS BEFORE THE COURT OF APPEALS....

LC>VIVIAN ( VIVIAN SHEVITZ, COLEMAN'S PRO BONO LAWYER WHO HAD TO LEAVE THE CASE BECAUSE JUDGE PLATT REFUSED TO EVEN PAY HER EXPENSES TO DEFEND HIM ).....VIVIAN IS VERY CONFIDENT HE IS GOING TO BE KNOCKED OFF THE CASE....WHY IS SHE SO CONFIDENT?

TC>WELL SHE MIGHT BE RIGHT....

AC>SHE MIGHT BE RIGHT....I THINK SHE'S WRONG.

TC>YOU SEE, YOU SEE, EVEN IF SHE'S RIGHT YOU WILL JUST BE DEALING WITH ANOTHER JUDGE, ONE I WOULD LIKE MORE, BUT WHOSE EVIDENCIARY RULINGS TO THE EXTENT THEY WOULD DIFFER FROM WHAT PLATT WOULD BE...WOULD BE LIKE....A FIVE PERCENT DIFFERENCE. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT....I CAN ENVISION YOU BEING IN JAIL AND US HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE NEXT STEP TWO YEARS FROM NOW.....

AC>THREE YEARS. THREE YEARS FROM NOW, ME OR SOMEONE FROM OUR APPEALS OFFICE MAY HAVE ARGUMENTS BEFORE THE COURT OF APPEALS....

LC>YOU ARE KIDDING? YOU MEAN I COULD SIT IN JAIL NOW FOR THREE YEARS ?

TC>YES, THIS IS THE KIND OF CASE THAT GOES ON AND ON. IT CAN TAKE....BY THE TIME THE DISCOVERY PROCESS....

LC>I WANT....

TC>PUSH IT AND THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT OF YOU.

AC> 10 COUNTS OF PERJURY, HOW MUCH IS THE STATUTE MAXIMUM ON EACH COUNT...FIVE YEARS?

LC>BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO RUN THEM CONCURRENTLY...UGH, I MEAN CONSECUTIVELY....

AC>WELL NO. BUT COULD JUDGE PLATT SENTENCE YOU TO 10 YEARS? COULD JUDGE PLATT SENTENCE YOU LONG ENOUGH SO YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN PRISON THROUGH OUT THE APPEALS PROCESS?

TC> YES!

AC>COULD JUDGE PLATT IMPOSE A SENTENCE LONG ENOUGH SO THREE...FOUR YEARS FROM NOW YOU ARE SITTING IN JAIL WAITING FROM AN ANSWER FROM THE COURT OF APPEALS?
YES! WHAT'S THE MOST FAVORABLE RESULT? FOUR YEARS FROM NOW I COULD BE TELLING YOU, 'WONDERFUL, THE COURT OF APPEALS HAS ORDERED A NEW TRIAL BEFORE ANOTHER JUDGE' THAT'S THE BEST CASE SCENERIO.

TC>YOU KNOW, WE....

AC>YOU KNOW WE CAN DO EVERYTHING, WE CAN PRESERVE EVERY ARGUMENT, WE CAN MAKE EVERY ARGUMENT, WE CAN DO EVERYTHING TO BE IN A POSITION TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE COURT OF APPEALS THAT JUDGE PLATT WAS BIAS, RIGHT? THAT HE SHOULD HAVE GOT'N OFF THE CASE IN THE BEGINNING...THAT HE PRECLUDED THE DEFENSE....AND ON AND ON AND ON. WHAT THAT GETS YOU IS A NEW TRIAL SEVERAL YEARS FROM NOW.

TC> I'VE BEEN DOING JUST WHAT I'M DOING TODAY SINCE 1973 AND WHAT I SEE HAPPENING TO YOU IS NOTHING SHORT OF ABSOLUTE LOSING. IF YOU WIN YOU LOSE, IF YOU LOSE YOU LOSE. THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF VICTORY.

LC>EVEN IF I DIDN'T COMMIT A CRIME?

AC>YEAH...YOU COLD GET OUT OF JAIL IN THREE YEARS...WONDERFUL!

TC>THEN YOU CAN SPEND YOUR LIFE WRITING BOOKS, OBCESSED ABOUT IT.

LC>I'M ALREADY OCESSED ABOUT IT....I'M TRYING TO GET IT OVER WITH.

TC>THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT....GET IT OVER WITH!

AC>THE GOVERNMENT....I AM FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH AN AGREED UPON SENTENCE OF TIME SERVED....PERHAPS TO COUNT SEVEN...UGH...IT WOULD REQUIRE A STATEMENT BY YOU THAT YOU KNOWINGLY LIED WHEN YOU CLAIMED TO HAVE DIRECT PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE....

LC>I NEVER CLAIMED THAT....

AC>OF A COURIER OPERATION....

TC>SLOW DOWN....

AC>LET'S TAKE OUT THE AFFIDAVIT...

LC>IN THE AFFIDAVIT I SAID I WAS TOLD...

TC>LISTEN...LISTEN...WE CAN TAKE ISSUE, PUT DIAGRAMS, CHARTS ON THE WALL....IT DOESN'T MATTER....

AC>THIS IS A POINT OF NEGOIATION...WHAT WORDS WOULD BE ENOUGH, YOU SAID YOU WERE TOLD....YOU WERE TOLD RIGHT? YOU WERE TOLD....

LC>RIGHT.

AC>WHICH MEANS YOU HAD NO DIRECT PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE...MAYBE ALLAN ( VICKERY ) WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THAT....

LC>I NEVER HAD DIRECT PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE THAT JAFAAR....I WASN'T THERE!

TC>SLOW DOWN, YOU GOT TO HEAR ALOT OF STUFF...

LC>YEAH...

TC>NO, I CAN UNDERSTAND OU BEING UPSET. IT'S YOUR LIFE...YOUR FAMILY.

AC>YO HAD NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF A COURIER OPERATION OF KALID JAFAAR PARTICIPATION....

LC>THAT'S TRUE....TRUE

AC>IT'S BASED ON WHAT YOU WERE TOLD?

LC>THAT'S RIGHT.

TC>CAN I SUGGEST....IF THIS DOES WORK...THE QUESTION OF BAIL BECOMES IRRELEVANT...

LC>RIGHT.

TC>IN OTHER WORDS....

AC>...ONCE YOU'VE PLEADED TO TIME SERVED....

TC>IF YOU PLED TO THAT AND THE JUDGE ACCEPTS IT...HE'S NOT GOING TO REVOKE YOUR BAIL...HE'LL GO WITH A NEW BOND.

AC>AND YOU WILL BE ON PROBATION SUPERVISION....

TC>THE JUDGE HAS NO CHOICE IF YOU PLEAD TO TIME SERVED.

AC>THE PLEA AGREEMENT WOULD SAY YOU WOULD BE ON RELEASE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME....

TC>ONE THING ABE THINKS THAT ALLAN IS QUITE VUNERABLE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE HE'S GOT A PROMOTION THAT DEMANDS ALL KINDS OF OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES THAT EVERY TIME HE HEARS FROM ME IS LIKE....' OH GOD !'

AC>IT WOULD BE CONDITIONS YOU COULD LIVE WITH...

AC>YOU CAN DO THINGS YOU WANT TO DO.....IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA YOU CAN LIVE IN CALIFORNIA...

LC>WHATEVER IS AGREED UPON?

TC> THIS IS ALL JUST STILL.....WE WERE THINKING THIS...ABE AND I ARE TALKING ON THE TRAIN.

LC>HAVE YOU TALKED TO VICKERY ABOUT ANY OF THIS?

AC>YEP.

( NOTE: CONVERSATION CONTINUES/LOGISTICS/COURT APPEARANCE, STATEMENT )

TC>IT'S HUMILIATING FOR YOU....YOUR DAUGHTER PREGNANT...LIVING HERE...

LC>NO KIDDING, I HAVE THREE KIDS TO SUPPORT...EVERYBODY'S BEEN THROUGH TOTAL HELL!

TC>AS FAR ALONG IN THIS PROCESS AS YO ARE, THE CHANCES OF YOU BEING VINDICATED...WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS...I DON'T NOW IF A JURY IS EVERY GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS...THE FACT THAT SOME JURY SAYS, 'NOT GUILTY' IS VERY EXCITING FOR ONE DAY...MAYBE EVEN A FOR A WEEK...WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE YOU AFTER THAT WHEN THERE IS NOTHING LEFT OF YOUR LIFE? IT'S NOT LIKE PEOPLE COME OUT AND THROW A TICKER TAPE PARADE FOR YOU...IT'S A DEPRESSING THING FOR US WHEN A TRIAL IS OVER...THE NEXT DAY WE ARE BACK AT IT AGAIN. SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS THERE IS NO WAY TO WIN IN THIS...TO WIN IN A SENSE THAT IT GIVES YOU AND KIND OF LIFE.

LC>WHY DID THEY CHARGE ME WITH THIS?

TC>THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE. IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HELP YOU, HAVE THEM HELP YOU BURN THE BOX OF DOCUMENTS AND GO GET A JOB AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE.

AC> MAYBE IN A HUNDERD YEARS WHEN EVERYONE IS DEAD...THE FILES WHICH ARE NOW SECRET...WILL BE DISCLOSED...MAYBE OUR GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOING TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT PLANE.....

SMALL TALK.....MEETING ENDS.

AUTHENTICATED  UNEDITED AUDIO TAPE IS AVAILABLE