CNN transcripts May 3, 2000 - The Lockerbie Trial
Featuring interviews with relatives, analysis of trial and news coverage.
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Early Edition

Trial Begins for Two Libyans Accused of Bombing Pan Am Flight 103

Aired May 3, 2000 - 7:01 a.m. ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, finally, the waiting is over after almost 12 years and thousands of hours of investigation and interviews, two Libyan intelligence officers are now on trial for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. The bombing killed 270 people. The trial began just 2 1/2 hours ago in a specially constructed courtroom amid extremely tight security. More than a thousand witnesses are listed for this trial which is expected to take as long as a year.

CNN's Colleen McEdwards has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's already being called the trial of the century in Scotland, and on this former U.S. air base in the Netherlands, the Lockerbie trial is drawing unprecedented interest. Diplomatic observers and journalists from about 180 organizations around the world are here. But those who have waited longest and fought hardest for this trial, the families who lost their loved ones are also present.

BERT AMMERMAN, VICTIM'S BROTHER: And today is our day of satisfaction, and our loved ones did not die in vain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm, you know, remembering the life of my lovely daughter and that's what's hurtful.

MCEDWARDS: The prosecution says it will begin its case with that chaotic night in December 1988, eyewitness accounts of something falling from the sky. By daybreak, an airliner's cockpit in a field, everyone on board dead, 11 people in the town of Lockerbie killed too.

Months of investigation led to evidence of a bomb in a suitcase. Years of diplomatic maneuvering and United Nations sanctions lead to the hand over of two suspects, alleged Libyan intelligence agents.

Libya has denied any involvement in the crash. Abdel Basset ali Mohammed al-Megrahi and Al-Amin Khalifa Fahima say they're innocent, and their lawyers plan to point the finger at others.

Three Scottish judges are trying this case, no jury, that's a concession made to Libya which was concerned about ensuring a fair, unbiased procedure. It is the first time a Scottish criminal court has sat abroad, another concession to ensure fairness in a neutral country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCEDWARDS: This is an important day for the family members, people who lost their loved ones when that airliner went down over Lockerbie, Scotland; the first time that they had a chance to see the two accused face to face, and some of them believe that if they hadn't lobbied so hard for this trial, hadn't pushed the U.S. government, hadn't pushed the British government, this unique legal proceeding might never have come about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMMERMAN: Everything we have done has come to fruition and now we can hear the evidence. So there is a feeling of relief. I was a nervous wreck, I couldn't believe it, waiting for the moment, the last hour I was -- my stomach felt like it had a pit in it, but it was amazing, as soon as the door opened up and the two of them walked in, there was a feeling of calm and relief. And I have to believe my brother was part of that, and I remember thinking in saying to my brother Tommy: we did it, I think you're proud of everyone, and it's in the name of all the loved ones on that flight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCEDWARDS: And some of the family members also say that if all of their questions aren't answered by this trial, they will also push for some form of public inquiry after this trial is completed.

Colleen McEdwards, reporting live CNN, Camp Zeist, the Netherlands.

LIN: Thank you, Colleen.
 



Early Edition

Pan Am 103 Lockerbie Bombing Trial Under Way in Netherlands

Aired May 3, 2000 - 8:01 a.m. ET

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Muammar Qadhafi said this morning that he had nothing to do with the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. The denial by the Libyan leader came as two Libyans went on trial in the 1988 explosion of the jumbo jet over Lockerbie, Scotland, a bombing that took 270 lives. The trial is underway at a Scottish court on an old U.S. military base in the Netherlands.

CNN's Nick Robertson has been inside the courtroom all morning. He joins us now live to set the scene for us -- Nick.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, it was a long wait -- has been a long wait for the families who lost loved ones on Pan Am 103. This morning, a few hours ago, they went into the court. They arrived, they came in and they sat down in the public chamber of the court.

It's divided from the main judicial part chamber of the court by one-inch-thick glass. It is bullet proof and it is sound proof, so there are headsets for people to listen to the translations and listen to the judges speak.

Now, the first order of business was the charges to be read out against the two defendants, Abdel Basset Ali Mohammed al-Megrahi and Al-Amin Khalifa Fahima. The two defendants sat there impassively as the charges of conspiracy to murder, murder and contravention to aviation security were read out in the court.

Now, after the charges were read out, which took a duration of 21 minutes to read all those charges -- that was the detail of the charges, very long, very extensive -- the defense issued a special defense, and that outlined, essentially, the way that the defense will lead their case defending the two accused. And that is, they are saying that they are not guilty on all accounts and that they are blaming others. Specifically, they named 10 people connected with Palestinian terror groups. Two of those 10 people that they named are actually witnesses for the prosecution.

Now, after that order of business was taken care of, the prosecution called their first witness. He was an aviation expert and he began to detail, just over an hour ago, the flight path that Pan Am 103 had taken on the evening of December the 21st. Now, for all those families in the courtroom, it was the first time that they had seen, for many of them, face to face, the defendants, and it had a significant impact on them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything we have done has come to fruition, and now we can hear the evidence. So there's a feeling of relief. I was a  nervous reck. I couldn't believe it, waiting for the moment. The last hour, my stomach felt like there was a pit in it. But it was amazing. As soon as the door opened up and the two of them walked in, there was a feeling of calm and relief. And I have to believe my brother who was part of that -- and I remembered thinking and saying to my brother, Tommy, we did it. I think you're proud of everyone, and it's in the name of all the loved ones on that flight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Also watching the trial, family members of the accused. One of them, the brother of Al-Amin Fahima, said that when he heard his brother accused of murder, he said it felt like it squeezed his heart. This trial is expected to last more than a year.  I'm Nick Robertson, reporting live from Camp Zeist, the Netherlands.

 HARRIS: All right. Thank you, Nick Robertson.



Early Edition

Pan Am Flight 103 Victim's Mother: Trial 'Horribly Painful'

Aired May 3, 2000 - 8:28 a.m. ET

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Relatives of victims were among those arriving today as two Libyans went on trial in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.

The trial is taking place at a special Scottish court in the Netherlands. Pan Am 103 was blasted out of the sky nearly 12 years ago over Lockerbie, Scotland; 270 people were killed; 189 of the victims were Americans, and one of them was Theo Cohen, a New Jersey woman who was 20 years old when she died in the crash.

Her parents are at Camp Zeist for the opening of this trail. They wrote a book, out in June, called "Pan Am 103: The Bombing, the Betrayals, and the Bereaved Families' Search for Justice."

Now, her parents are Dan and Susan Cohen, but Susan Cohen joins us now live out of -- or Dan actually joins us live out of the Netherlands.

 I'm sorry -- Susan. I was just getting the picture on the screen.

SUSAN COHEN, VICTIM'S MOTHER: This is Susan Cohen.

LIN: Hi, Susan. How are you?  I understand Dan's still inside the courtroom.

COHEN: Hi.

LIN: What was it like for you to be inside today and see the two suspects for the first time in person?

COHEN: It was horribly painful. I was prepared to be very depressed, and I must say that I was very depressed; it was even more -- really more upsetting than I had expected. I was just sitting there with my stomach turning, not knowing what to do. It was that hard.

LIN: Susan, at this point, now that the trial is under way, is this closure for you after waiting so many years for this moment?

COHEN: No, no, no. There can be no closure under any circumstances.But I would like to say that this trial, because it is a result of a political deal, will not provide anything even in the way of justice. I very much want the two indicted terrorists to be found guilty, I believe they are guilty, but if this does not go all the up to Gadhafi, who -- then it is not justice, because these are not two rogue terrorists, these are two people who work for the Libyan Security Agency, and they were sent to commit this terrible crime. So we have to have full justice. We have to have it go all the way up to the people who ordered the killing.

LIN: Well, in the time that it's taken to get this trial under way, the United States has been reestablishing relations with Libya. How much influence do you think those political ties are going to have on the outcome of this trial?

COHEN: Well, I think what they do is make the trial, in a sense, irrelevant. There's very, very -- it enrages me to see the way the United States is kowtowing to Gadhafi, is working to completely rehabilitate him; that was  the reason for this trial, so that the oil companies and other businesses can get back to making money with this tyrant who happens to have oil. And as long as he has oil, I'm afraid that is going to beat out any possibility of justice.

LIN: Well, at the same time, you've been working for the last year to get disclosure of a letter that apparently Kofi Annan wrote to Moammar Gadhafi. Do you know what the contents of that letter? Has it been released yet?

COHEN: I'm aware of some of the contents of that letter, and no, it has not been released. The Libyans know what that letter says, but the American people are not allowed to know. The letter was originally not classified, it was classified later, and the government simply refuses to make it public. We have demanded that it be made public, but so far, we have not been able to succeed.

LIN: Well, what do you think is actually in this letter that is so damning?

COHEN: Well, it has a line that it is not our intention to undermine the Libyan regime, and then it lays out certain basis for this trial. It is not a smoking gun, but it shows a very weak capitulation on the part of the United States to giving Gadhafi what he wants to keep him protected. The U.N. will be all over this trial, the observers, they will be all over any imprisonment that's there. There are all kinds of conditions that involve the prisoners themselves. It is a very disturbing document.

LIN: All right, Susan Cohen, I don't want to keep you too much longer from the proceedings. Thanks so much for joining us this morning from the Netherlands.

COHEN: Well, thank you, thank you very much. 



Morning News

Two Libyan Intelligence Agents Plead Innocent in Pan Am 103 Bombing

Aired May 3, 2000 - 9:05 a.m. ET

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Two Libyan intelligence agents pleaded not-guilty today in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. Those pleas came at the start of their trial in the Netherlands. And as CNN's Colleen McEdwards reports now, relatives of the people who died in the bombing are hoping for justice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's already being called the "trial of the century" in Scotland. And on this former U.S. air base in the Netherlands, the Lockerbie trial is drawing unprecedented interest. Diplomatic observers and journalists from about 180 organizations around the world are here. But those who have waited longest and fought hardest for this trial, the families who lost their loved ones, are also present.

BERT AMMERMAN, VICTIM'S BROTHER: And today is our day of satisfaction, and our loved ones did not die in vain.

JANE SWIRE, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I'm, you know, remembering the life of my lovely daughter. That's what's hurtful.

MCEDWARDS: The prosecution says it will begin its case with that chaotic night in December 1988, eyewitness accounts of something falling from the sky. By daybreak, an airliner's cockpit in a field, everyone on board dead, 11 people in the town of Lockerbie killed, too.

Months of investigation led to evidence of a bomb in a suitcase. Years of diplomatic maneuvering and United Nations sanctions lead to the handover of two suspects, alleged Libyan intelligence agents.

Libya has denied any involvement in the crash. Abdel Basset ali Mohammed al-Megrahi and Al-Amin Khalifa Fahima say they're innocent, and their lawyers plan to point the finger at others.

Three Scottish judges are trying this case -- no jury. That's a concession made to Libya, which was concerned about ensuring a fair, unbiased procedure. It is the first time a Scottish criminal court has sat abroad, another concession to ensure fairness in a neutral country.
(ENDVIDEOTAPE)

MCEDWARDS: The two suspects have appeared in court. They have pleaded not-guilty and their lawyer informed the court that they do plan to accuse other people of planting that bomb on Pan Am Flight 103. The prosecution has listed more than 1,000 potential witnesses to call in this trial. The defense plans to call more than 100 witnesses. This trial is expected to take more than a year to complete.

Colleen McEdwards, CNN, reporting live from Camp Zeist, the Netherlands.

HEMMER: Colleen, thank you.

What are the chances, now, the two suspects in the explosion over Lockerbie will actually be convicted? Ahead this hour, we'll talk with a former assistant secretary of state who says it is, quote, "highly unlikely." Stay tuned for that.


Morning News

Bolton: U.S. Used Wrong Approach to Bring Pan Am Flight 103 Bombing Suspects to Trial

Aired May 3, 2000 - 9:17 a.m. ET

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The trial now under way for two suspects accused of bombing Pan Am Flight 103 is being closely watched, not only by the victim's families, but also by the international community.

Joining us now from Washington to talk about the trial, John Bolton, a former assistant secretary of state. He's currently Senior Vice President of the American Enterprise Institute.

Nice to see you, John, good morning to you, sir.

JOHN BOLTON, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Good morning.

HEMMER: It would appear on the surface that they are moving toward justice in this case. You don't see it that way, why not?

BOLTON: I don't think so at all. I think this entire matter has been very badly handled by the administration, leading to the possibility we're going to have a kind of charade at Camp Zeist and that the two defendants might well be acquitted.

But more importantly, that the real instigator of the bombing of Pan Am 103, the chief co-conspirator, Moammar Gadhafi, may never be brought to justice because of the way the administration has negotiated through the U.N. system with Libya.

HEMMER: You're obviously referring to the Clinton White House, but, as we know, 1988 had a Republican in the White House. What happened or what foundered in the Bush administration then?

BOLTON: Well, we started down the route of U.N. sanctions and I think certainly in hindsight, and perhaps we should have seen it at the time, but that was wrong way to deal with a terrorist incident like this. Instead of trying the judicialize or use diplomacy to solve the problem, I think we should have responded to this attack on the United States, and that's what it was, with military force; much the same way President Reagan responded after Libya was responsible for the Labell (ph) disco bombing in Germany just a few years before.

But even having gone down this route now of attempting to obtain a judicial remedy for the defendants, what we have is a situation where the administration has hopelessly compromised the prosecution's case by making it impossible for them to really develop the facts that would lead to find out who was ultimately responsible.

HEMMER: John, you have an article today in the Washington Times, I've read it. You make four points and you've mentioned a few of those, but I want to get back to the one point that you mentioned in your first answer, saying a conviction will not come out of this trial. Are you so sure of that? Why is a conviction not likely here?

BOLTON: Well, I certainly hope there is a conviction but I don't think anybody should believe that even a conviction of these two defendants really resolves the matter. These two Libyan intelligence agents did not act on their own. It's almost certain, and our FBI certainly believes this, that they acted at Moammar Gadhafi's direct orders. We could...

HEMMER: But would Gadhafi have given the two men to the court, in Camp Zeist, had these conditions not been met?

BOLTON: Well, the key condition, that may be contained in a letter from Kofi Annan to Moammar Gadhafi that has never been released by the State Department or the U.N...

HEMMER: I think it was public for a short time, though, was it not?

BOLTON: Well, it was never public, some of the families had it read to them before the State Department classified it. But this letter, or the terms of the deal, which is more important, basically said that the prosecution would not do anything that could be construed as undermining the Libyan regime. Well, if you believe, as many of our investigators do, that this conspiracy, this act of murder, began at the top of the Libyan regime, that is very effective insulation for Moammar Gadhafi.

HEMMER: John Bolton, American Enterprise Institute, live in Washington. We will see indeed if there is a conviction reached in this case, said to take almost a year's time in court. John, thanks again, sir.

BOLTON: Thank you.



Morning News

Pan Am Flight 103 Trial: Families of Victims Watch Closely After Years of Waiting

Aired May 3, 2000 - 10:01 a.m. ET

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to start this hour with the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. The 1988 explosion killed 270 people. The long wait for this trial has held hostage their survivors.

This morning, these two men, alleged intelligence agents for Libya, entered not-guilty pleas in the trial. They say Palestinians are responsible for the world's worst act of air terrorism. The pleas of innocence were expected, but the trial itself has been mired in doubt for more than a decade. Libya had refused to surrender the defendants, and surrendered them last year after a decade of sanctions.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: That trial expected to last about a year. And for the relatives of the victims, the wait to begin the proceedings has been agonizing.

CNN's Colleen McEdwards now with that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The slash in the ground where Pan Am Flight 103 went down in Lockerbie, and almost twelve years later, open wounds.

BARBARA ZWYNENBURG, VICTIM'S MOTHER: There's thousands and thousands and thousands of plane flights every day around the world, and why did our kid have to get on the wrong one?

 MCEDWARDS: John and Barbara Zwynenburg lost their son, Mark. They want answers from this trial.

JOHN ZWYNENBURG, VICTIM'S FATHER: The outcome I'm looking for is to hear, see, feel, smell the truth, OK, the facts.

MCEDWARDS: A massive, meticulous investigation found evidence of a bomb believed hidden inside a radio in a suitcase. But how did it get on Pan Am 103 undetected? And why? Was it retaliation for the U.S. bombing of Libya two years before the crash, or revenge against the U.S. for mistakenly shooting down an Iranian airliner?

In England, Jim Swire, who lost his daughter, has led the families' campaign to have this case brought to trial. JIM SWIRE, VICTIM'S FATHER: The court is of vital importance because it will drive a coach and horses through most of the conspiracy theories that we've heard in the last 10 years.

MCEDWARDS: Since Pan Am 103, relatives of victims have helped push through improved safety measures now in place around the world. But many say the U.N. sanctions against Libya should not have been suspended when the suspects were handed over, and they worry the United States and Britain won't be hard enough on Libya, will put concerns about oil, economics and diplomacy ahead of justice.

KATHLEEN FLYNN, VICTIM'S MOTHER: If we don't get to go up the chain of command, there is only partial justice as far as these two Libyans are concerned. We want the full culpability of who was responsible for the murder of all those people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCEDWARDS: So as this trial actually began, those relatives were watching very closely. And what they saw was a somewhat significant step by the defense. It is actually naming names, actually saying who it plans to try to incriminate in order to try to absolve the two accused.

Among others it is planning to point a finger at a little known Palestinian group and Lebanese man who was already jailed in Sweden for terrorism. Two of the people named are actually witnesses in the prosecution's witness list.

Back to you.

HEMMER: Colleen, I know a number of relatives have actually been given the option to sit in the very first row inside that courtroom. How many relatives have come to the trial thus far there in the Netherlands?

MCEDWARDS: The numbers we have are rough, Bill. The relatives of the victims, the court officials estimate about 40 families are here. Some of  them are actually coming here for the duration, have actually set up home in the Netherlands and plan to stay as long as they can. Others will be popping in and out. Still others who haven't been able to make it have special provisions available to them. They are able to watch it on a special television feed from some locations, and they have access to a special Web site so they can keep abreast of the trial. On the defense side, the side of the accused, about 16 relatives of the two Libyan suspects are here to support them as well.

HEMMER: All right, Colleen McEdwards live there at Camp Zeist in Holland.