Aired January 31, 2001 - 6:30 a.m. ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS
FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LINDA STOUFFER, CNN ANCHOR: We've been following the decision
by Scottish judges to find one of the Libyan defendants guilty, the other
not
guilty, in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.
We take you live now to a news conference out of Lockerbie, Scotland.
Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
ANDREW CAMPBELL, DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY COUNCIL:
And gave me assurance that their efforts have been appreciated. We should
-- we should reflect also on the unique and enduring bond of friendship
forged between the people of Scotland and the families of the victims:
a
bond of friendship born out of tragedy, representing the finest of human
qualities and the great human spirit.
This tragedy, of course, took place 12 years ago. And I'm sure one of the
messages that the people of Lockerbie, and indeed the people of Dumfries
and Galloway and Scotland would like to give out today to the victims --
to
the families of the victims and their -- about the fate of their loved
ones is
quite simple. We recognize the hardship and the stress these people have
come through over the years.
And the message goes out to the world: There is no hiding place anywhere
for such atrocity as took place with the bombing of Pan Am 103 over
Lockerbie in December, 1988.
I would like to now ask the chief executive of Dumfries and Galloway
Council if he would like to make a comment.
CHIEF EXECUTIVE, DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY COUNCIL:
Thank you, Convener.
PHIL JONES, DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY COUNCIL: The
Lockerbie trial in the Netherlands focused on how the murder of 270 men,
women and children was committed, and by who. The trial and the outcome
of the trial has provided certain answers to those questions. But no measure
of justice administered by the courts could ever equal such an appalling
loss
of life. And no measure can be placed on the opportunity that was denied
innocent people to live their lives.
The families and those most closely affected will have their own private
thoughts today on the outcome of the trial. And whilst, for some, this
verdict
will bring matters to a degree of closure, for others, no doubt, the search
for
answers will go on. Our thoughts go out once again to the families from
21
nations affected by this devastating tragedy.
CAMPBELL: Thank you very much, Chief Executive.
Could we ask for questions, please? You have the names of the people up
in
front of you here. And if you'd like to address them either through me
or
directly, then that would be acceptable.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) by this tragedy (OFF-MIKE)
CAMPBELL: Thank you for that.
Margory, would you care to make a comment as a local counselor --
perhaps Libby Levine (ph) as well.
MARGORY MCQUEEN, DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY COUNCIL:
I think that the town of Lockerbie has drawn a line under what happened
here. And we drew a line some considerably number of years ago. There
has not been of dearth of anticipation here at the verdict of the trial
that
you've all expected. And I'm sure you've found that out as you've walked
through the town.
Obviously, our thoughts are with the relatives today. Their fate are a
mainstay here. And that's what we are doing in Lockerbie: really looking
after the relatives. The town itself, physical scars, have healed. We're
just a
normal market town that you would have found here 12 years ago.
QUESTION: Are you telling me a town in which (OFF-MIKE)
MCQUEEN: What I'm saying is that, immediately after December, 1988,
there were lots of people in town -- and young people as well -- who
suffered post-traumatic stress. That's -- that was the way it was. But
what
I'm saying is now, when a town who picked ourselves up, dusted ourselves
down, and we're just getting on with the day-to-day living.
CAMPBELL: I think it's fair to say that what I said in my opening remarks
is
perfectly true. Because of this tragedy, the people of Lockerbie have shone
out to the world in what they are, who they are, and the type of people
they
are. And I think the people who have lost a family in this realize the
sincerity
that has been spoken by the people of Lockerbie, and indeed, been led by
Marjorie McQueen, the local member.
Perhaps maybe I could ask Levine, another local member, to have -- her
point of view.
LIBBY LEVINE, DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY COUNCIL: Yes,
thank you.
Yes, I think that the people of Lockerbie will always be here to help and
support the families. But as Mrs. McQueen has just said, the town has
started to heal. The scars have grown over. And, basically, people here
are
just getting on with their everyday lives.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
Another question?
Yes, sir.
(OFF-MIKE)
CAMPBELL: Well, of course, the procedure that we have -- the
knowledge that we have from Camp Zeist at the moment is that one guilty
and one not guilty. And it would seem to us that that would probably
indicate that, obviously, the one that's guilty would have the opportunity
to
appeal.
It would be -- they would be given the same -- they have been given the
same opportunity as anybody else would be under the Scottish court rules.
And I'm quite sure, yes, it will go on and on. And there will be questions
still
to be answered. At this minute in time, we can only deal with what has
happened to date. And that is the position we find ourselves to be.
(OFF-MIKE)
CAMPBELL: Certainly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the question please?
(OFF-MIKE)
JOE MEECHAN, DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY COUNCIL: I think
that we see the trial as the end of a chapter. And the story will go on.
I think
there will always be concern that the perpetrator has been prosecuted,
but
the person or people who issued the orders to carry out this disastrous
act
still (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
Any other questions?
STOUFFER: All right, you've been listening to a news conference out of
Lockerbie, Scotland. Local officials there, members of the Dumfries and
Galloway Council speaking about today's verdict in the Lockerbie bombing
trial -- one man saying of the guilty verdict that it sends a message to
the
world that there is no hiding place anywhere in the world.
Several of the local officials there also had words about the victims'
families,
speaking of the hardship and stress they've been through in the last 12
years
-- one woman saying, "Our thoughts are with the relatives today." Important
to remember, too, that 259 people were on that plane when it exploded.
Eleven people were killed on the ground from the falling debris in Lockerbie,
Scotland.
Now, our Frank Buckley has been in New York this morning. That is also
where some relatives are. They've been watching the verdicts as they came
in on television.
Hello, Frank. What are you hearing there?
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, many
of the family members are inside the Jacob Javits Federal Building having
breakfast. They say they are not going to speak to the media until after
the
sentencing that they expect later today. Others have begun to come out
and
speak to the media.
There have been -- there's been the ability for family members throughout
this trial to watch on closed-circuit television, both here in New York,
also in
Washington, D.C. Some of them have come out, some of them expressing
frustration over the period that's taken place here: 12 years to reach
a
verdict -- some of them also saying that they believe the case goes further
than just the two men who are on trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERT AMMERMAN, RELATIVE OF VICTIM: The Scottish judicial
process was outstanding. No one can question the integrity of what took
place. So our loved ones did not die in vain. Today is a day of satisfaction.
True justice though, I believe, will never be served because the person
that
should be brought to justice is the leader of Libya. And I just don't think
that's going to happen.
GEORGE WILLIAMS, FATHER OF VICTIM: ... of 13 years hard work,
but it's not the end. Now we go after Gadhafi. Gadhafi was the godfather.
These guys were the hitmen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: And joining me now is Jack Flynn, the father of John Patrick
Flynn, who was 21 years old and was aboard Pan Am Flight 103. He was a
junior at Colgate.
Your reaction, Jack, to the verdict today?
JACK FLYNN, VICTIM'S FATHER: I have spent the last nine months
going to trial every day. So I'm gathering -- looking at all the evidence.
And
I felt that Megrahi was definitely -- both of them were involved. We had
the
evidence to convict Megrahi. And thank God the judges agreed with me and
they came up with the guilty verdict.
I did not feel that the -- we had enough evidence against Fhimah, the second
accused. And the judges also felt that way, which was true. They had very
little evidence against him. So I was very happy that they were able to
convict Megrahi because he was the key person. He was the person that
was part of the Libyan central intelligence. He was a major in their central
intelligence. He was the one that went to Zurich and got the timer.
He was the one who bought the clothes. He was the one who did everything
pertaining to. All Fhimah did was help him get it on the plane at the end,
and
we didn't have enough against him.
BUCKLEY: You were...
FLYNN: But I'm very satisfied.
BUCKLEY: You were able to watch the trial. As you know, one of the
prosecution witnesses was expected to place the two men actually placing
the suitcase aboard the airplane. That is what people were expecting.
FLYNN: Right.
BUCKLEY: That evidence did not emerge. The fact that that did not
emerge, the fact that it was a circumstantial evidence case, do you think
that
contributed to the fact that there was only one guilty verdict?
FLYNN: They had a minimal amount of evidence against Fhimah. They had
an awful lot of evidence against Megrahi. The person you talked about was
the double agent, which was Giaka. And Giaka said he saw the two of them
come off the plane into Malta when they were coming from Libya on the
20th. He saw them with a brown Samsonite bag. He did not see them put it
on the plane or anybody else put it on the plane. And that was the issue.
They didn't have enough evidence on Fhimah. But they had a lot of
background evidence on Megrahi about the timer, as I said before, and
about the clothes and so forth.
BUCKLEY: OK. People talk about this word closure. And when you talk
to people who've been through something like this, who have lost a loved
one, they say you can never have closure. What's your view of that?
FLYNN: Yes. I mean, you can't replace your child, you know. You can't
replace your child. What I'm really looking for at this point in time,
that our
government tries to make sure that terrorist nations don't do these kinds
of
things, especially to an American. There is an awful lot of hatred against
America in other parts of the world. God knows for what reason. And
we've got to somehow stop these countries and these terrorists from doing
these kinds of things. And I hope that we take some action to make sure
that
Libya and any other terrorist country never does anything like this again.
BUCKLEY: Jack, thanks very much for joining us this morning.
FLYNN: Thank you.
BUCKLEY: That one of the reactions here among the family members who
have gathered in New York. Jack has been coming every day with his wife,
Kathleen, to witness the trial over the men accused of murdering his son
and
many others.
Back to you.
STOUFFER: Frank, I have a quick question for you. I'm hoping you can
help sort of set the scene for us. These folks got up very early, because
of
the time difference, to come in and hear the verdict, 5:00 a.m. Eastern
Time.
They've been waiting 12 years to have something official from the court
system. I know they had a picture from the Netherlands, but could you set
the scene for us? What happened then?
BUCKLEY: Well, we know that some of these family members were up at
3:00 this morning, perhaps earlier. Many of them stayed in a local hotel
together. About 25 people stayed in a local hotel together, boarded a bus
and came down here to the federal building together and then watched in
this
room, where there is a big-screen TV. And they could see what was
happening in the Netherlands.
They weren't able to hear, apparently, initially. And we can't independently
say that. We weren't allowed in and reporters have not been able to go
into
this room. But we've been told by the family members they couldn't hear
the
verdict being announced. It was very tense. They didn't know what was
happening at first. Then they found out that there was at least one guilty
verdict. And that's when there was cheering in the room.
STOUFFER: It must have been very tense. Frank Buckley out of New
York following the families and their reactions to these verdicts. Frank,
thank you very much -- Jason.
CARROLL: And, Linda, as you heard from some of the family members
there, a number of them feel as though that this case does not stop with
the
two defendants, that there -- that this case goes all the way to the top
of the
Libyan government.
With more on the Libyan reaction, we go now to Richard Roth, who is live
at the U.N.
Richard, what can you tell us?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT:
Yes, we've just gotten off the phone with Libya's United Nations
ambassador, Omar Dorda. He has expressed sympathy for the family
members, but said that he was shocked by the verdicts, did not think --
his
country did not think much of the evidence, and that his country is going
to
go to the U.N. Security Council to try to get a permanent lifting of the
economic and arms sanctions that were imposed by the Security Council on
the Libyan government nearly 10 years ago.
The council suspended the sanctions several years ago because Libya turned
over the two suspects for trial. That was the main point of these sanctions.
Diplomats this morning telling us here that they don't expect any change
in
that status at this moment. They're going to be reviewing the case. The
United Nations has sanctions on Libya; the U.S. and some other countries
with unilateral sanctions.
But the sanctions, according to some diplomats here, were really designed,
quote, "as a lever to get Libya to turn over the suspects." That was a
major
part of the sanctions' efforts. Now it would seem impossible to get the
sanctions to be reimposed by a formal vote because many members of the
council, except for the United States and the United Kingdom, oppose the
reimposition of the sanctions. It's been the U.S. and Britain, which blocked
the late December move by the Nanaline (ph) movement to get the sanctions
lifted. That even before the verdicts were reached -- Jason.
CARROLL: All right, thank you very much. Richard Roth coming to us live
from the U.N.
Just to recap a little bit of what Richard was saying, the Libyan government
obviously disappointed with this morning's verdict. We're also hearing
that
they're going to go to the U.N. to try to lift some of the sanctions there
that
have been imposed upon Libya.
STOUFFER: And just to recap what we've been learning this morning, a
split decision from the Scottish judges hearing the case about the Lockerbie
bombing, Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi found guilty. We expect his
sentencing to happen in just over an hour from now. Lamen Khalifa Fhimah
found not guilty.
Mixed reaction coming in from all over the world, a story we will continue
to
follow for you.
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