Victims' Families React to Lockerbie Trial Verdict

                   Aired January 31, 2001 - 6:00 a.m. ET

                   THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS
                   FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

                   LINDA STOUFFER, CNN ANCHOR: It was just about an hour ago that
                   the verdict was announced in the trial of the two men accused in the 1988
                   bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. The bombing happened over Lockerbie,
                   Scotland.

                   JASON CARROLL, CNN ANCHOR: A Scottish court in Camp Zeist,
                   Netherlands delivered a split decision. The three-judge panel found Abdel
                   Basset Ali al-Megrahi guilty. He is expected to be sentenced in about two
                   hours.

                   The other defendant, his name is Lamen Khalifa Fhimah. He was found
                   innocent and is free to go; 270 people were killed when the jumbo jet
                   exploded just four days before Christmas, 1988. Nearly three-quarters of
                   the people on board the plane were Americans. Some of their relatives
                   watched the verdict this morning from a closed- circuit television in New
                   York.

                   We go now to CNN's Frank Buckley, who is standing by live with reaction
                   from the families.

                   Good morning, Frank. What can you tell us about what the families are
                   saying?

                   FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning,
                   Jason.

                   The family members did gather here at the Jacob Javits Federal Building,
                   where some of them have been gathering for months now, watching the trial
                   unfold on closed-circuit television. They had the same opportunity today to
                   see the verdict announced. And they say, as they crowded into the room
                   and watched on the closed-circuit television, there was a moment of tension
                   because they couldn't actually hear the verdict being announced.

                   Someone had to place a phone call. And then finally they understood that
                   there was at least one guilty verdict here.

                   However, many of the family members here believe that this case went far
                   beyond the two alleged Libyan operatives, intelligence operatives, who were
                   on trial here. They believe this goes to the top of the Libyan government to
                   Moammar Gadhafi.

                   (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

                   BERT AMMERMAN, FAMILY MEMBER OF VICTIM: With Megrahi
                   being found guilty, that is state-sponsored terrorism. That leads to the
                   doorsteps of Gadhafi. Gadhafi is a coward. He is a rogue leader. And Libya
                   is a rogue nation. I don't hold out much hope that our new president or even
                   prime minister the England at this point will show any backbone, because the
                   politicians over 12 years have never shown a backbone.

                   They have never done what is right for citizens. Some in government have.
                   But most of the leaders wanted this to go away. They wanted it to go away
                   because they are more concerned about Middle East peace and oil than they
                   are about their own citizens.

                   (END VIDEO CLIP)

                   BUCKLEY: And we can -- we'd like to take you now to another camera
                   just in front of the Jacob Javits Federal Building, where Jack Flynn, one of
                   the family members, is speaking to reporters.

                   JACK FLYNN, FAMILY MEMBER OF VICTIM: I don't think that he
                   was not involved. He was involved. But from a legal point of view, you
                   could not prove it. So I am in agreement with the judge's decision.

                   QUESTION: ... your 12-year odyssey, to have a guilty verdict today, when
                   people thought it would never maybe happen, just from an emotional family
                   personal standpoint?

                   UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll speak on our behalf.

                   FLYNN: No. I'll take it. It was -- after waiting 12 years, it was some level
                   of justice. Obviously, it would never bring your kid back. And hopefully, the
                   U.S. government takes some substantial action against Libya because this
                   person was a member of their central intelligence. He was a major in their
                   central intelligence. He was very involved with their central intelligence.

                   And hopefully, the government takes a level of action against a terrorist
                   country such as Libya and makes sure that they never do it again to
                   anybody.

                   QUESTION: What sort of (OFF-MIKE)

                   FLYNN: It was an act of war, as you all probably know. They deliberately
                   went after Americans, an American flagship with Americans on the plane. It
                   was not against anybody else. It was in retaliation for what we had done to
                   Gadhafi in blowing up his tent and killing his daughter. And this was
                   retaliation. It was an act of war.

                   What the government does at this time is their decision. I can't make that
                   decision because it's 12 years later. They should have done something in
                   1991, when they had the same level of evidence. Yes, they didn't have to
                   prove it in court at that time and should have taken some action. But the
                   existing administration at that time did not and threw it into the U.N., which,
                   in our opinion, was a mistake.

                   QUESTION: Jack and Kerry (ph), can you describe to me what it was like
                   for you as the verdict, when you were watching the television after --
                   immediately afterwards, after you found out what the verdict was?

                   FLYNN: It was very emotional -- very, very emotional for me. As I said, I
                   followed it so closely. I wanted so much for them to be found guilty because
                   I knew in my heart they were guilty. And they were found guilty. The most --
                   the key one was Megrahi, which all the evidence is against. He was the one
                   who basically got the timer, went to Zurich and got the timer.

                   He was the one who bought the clothes. He had been identified by people
                   who said he did that. So we knew he was very intimately involved. Fhimah
                   less so. So I felt that the judges arrived at the right decision. And so, yes, I
                   got very emotional and so forth.

                   QUESTION: Do you think that the administration at the time of the bombing
                   was really weak in its response?

                   FLYNN: It was horribly weak in its response. And that was the previous
                   Bush. He did not take any action. I won't -- don't know why.

                   QUESTION: Do you think it was because of oil interests, or... FLYNN:
                   There is speculation that that is the reason why. OK? I do not know that. I
                   mean, I can't get in his head and say why he did that. But he didn't. He didn't
                   take action. He should have taken action. It was an act of war. They wanted
                   to kill Americans. I always compare it to protecting Kuwait. OK, we went in
                   and went to war to protect Kuwait. Why didn't we go to war over Pan Am
                   103? And as you say, it may be oil. I hope it wasn't. I hope he was another
                   decision.

                   QUESTION: There were two suspects. One was found guilty. It would be
                   hard to believe that only one person would involved in this whole thing. Do
                   you feel satisfied at this point? Is it over for you?

                   FLYNN: Yes, because I followed the evidence very, very closely. I knew
                   the evidence against Megrahi. And yes, there was sufficient evidence against
                   Megrahi. There was not sufficient evidence against Fhimah. They could not
                   prove that Fhimah was part of this central intelligence. The only part he was
                   involved in was the part at the end of getting the bag on the plane.

                   But no one actually saw him do that. There was probably people in the
                   airport that saw him, but, in fact, didn't come forth and say that they did. So
                   they had nobody saw him do that. They just saw the two of them with the
                   bag coming into Malta with the bag. OK? They did not see them put the bag
                   on the plane. And that's the reason.

                   (OFF-MIKE)

                   FLYNN: Kerry and my daughter and my wife -- who can't be with us today
                   for another reason. And I don't want to bring that up publicly.

                   QUESTION: Can you tell us the name of your wife?

                   FLYNN: Kathleen? And Kathleen is...

                   QUESTION: K?

                   FLYNN: K-a-t-h is normally the spokesperson in our family. But, quite
                   frankly, she is undergoing surgery right now.

                   (OFF-MIKE)

                   FLYNN: Excuse me?

                   QUESTION: What do you think the United Nations (OFF-MIKE)

                   FLYNN: I think that they should make sure that the sanctions are enforced.
                   I think the United States should go beyond the U.N. and impose sanctions. I
                   don't know what degree of sanctions. I think we should go after those
                   people in the Libyan government that sponsored this. How the government
                   does that, I don't quite know. OK?

                   But I would hope they would take action against Gadhafi and the Libyan
                   government by putting significant sanctions and what else -- whatever else
                   they decide to do.

                   QUESTION: What's the next steps for you now that this is over? What --
                   what do you do now?

                   FLYNN: You fight for justice. You continue to fight for justice. And what I
                   really want to happen is that no terrorist country ever does this to anybody
                   again. And I think the United States government has got to take the kind of
                   action that makes sure those kinds of countries that do that don't ever do it
                   again, because you can't believe the sorrow and horror the families go
                   through when this happens. You can't believe it.

                   So I hope our government takes appropriate action to stop those kind of
                   countries. There's another person, bin Laden, I'm sure you all heard about.
                   OK -- that they do something to make sure that the countries that keep him
                   protected are not allowed to do that.

                   BUCKLEY: So an emotional Jack Flynn speaking about his reaction. His
                   son John Patrick Flynn was 21 years old when he died aboard Pan Am 103.
                   He was a junior at Colgate University and was returning home for
                   Christmas. The Flynns have been coming every day from New Jersey to
                   monitor this trial. And as you can see, he was very emotional -- Jason.

                   CARROLL: Yes, Frank, lots of emotion out there -- obviously, anger, as
                   well. Some of the victims' families seem to think that the Libyan government
                   was involved with this.

                   BUCKLEY: Well, clearly, there is a belief that continues among family
                   members of the victims. They have always believed that this went far beyond
                   these two alleged intelligence operatives. They believe that it goes to the top
                   of the Libyan government, and they insist that they will continue to press the
                   U.S. government to continue their investigation, U.S. officials today saying
                   that, in fact, the case is not closed and they are continuing their investigation.
                   That is good news for those family members.

                   CARROLL: Well, let's hope that at least some of the family members can
                   find some closure in all this in the coming months.

                   Frank Buckley, joining us live from New York -- thank you, Frank.

                   STOUFFER: And just a recap: one Libyan defendant found not guilty in the
                   Pan Am bombing, the other found guilty. Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi will
                   face sentencing from the Scottish judges. That is expected to happen in just
                   about two hours.

                   We have the opportunity to take you live now to our Richard Blystone, who
                   is at Camp Zeist, in the Netherlands, where these judges heard the case and
                   made their decisions earlier today.

                   Hello Richard, what do you have?

                   RICHARD BLYSTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Linda.

                   Well, among the dozens of bereaved parents, widows, and widowers of
                   Lockerbie, was Mr. Glenn Johnson, who is also the board chairman of one
                   of the three American organizations of the families of the victims. It's called
                   Victims of Pan Am Flight 103.

                   Mr. Johnson, your reaction at the verdict?

                   GLENN JOHNSON, VICTIMS OF PAN AM FLIGHT 103: I think it
                   was effectively -- for now able to say yes, there was a conspiracy, it's
                   proven. We now know that there is truth behind this. It still needs to be
                   known, but we feel a little bit of relief -- a little anxiety that we didn't learn
                   more.

                   BLYSTONE: Were you surprised?

                   JOHNSON: I was almost ready to accept the fact that we might get a not
                   proven. I don't think there was ever any doubt that they would ever be
                   considered not guilty. The evidence, I believe, proved it; the problem was
                   being so much circumstantial evidence, there was a possibility of being not
                   proven. That weighed heavily on my mind.

                   BLYSTONE: Now, what's next for your organization -- and I understand
                   that you have some evidence -- or some kind of evidence -- that the
                   prosecution here did not have?

                   JOHNSON: I think there is still evidence that the police had that has not
                   been released. A lot of it may not fit the category which could be used in this
                   court. We're now going to a civil trial. We're hoping that more of this can be
                   brought out, because we still do not have it certified as to who was
                   responsible. We know who did it, but not who was responsible.

                   BLYSTONE: Now we have just heard on CNN from a Libyan
                   representative who said my country is not on trial here -- was not on trial
                   here.

                   JOHNSON: Officially, they may not have been on trial, but in everyone's
                   mind they were.

                   BLYSTONE: And they were, of course, in the charge, the...

                   JOHNSON: That's correct.

                   BLYSTONE: ... the furtherance of the purposes of the Libyan Intelligence
                   Service.

                   JOHNSON: And they were involved with Libyan Intelligence Service, and I
                   myself cannot believe that a country like Libya would have agents that would
                   do something like this without someone higher up knowing all about it.

                   BLYSTONE: The guilty verdict on Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi -- will that
                   make your case easier to fight?

                   JOHNSON: Yes, because we've had our civil case stalled, mainly because
                   wait and see what would happen here. A guilty verdict here will make it
                   much easier for us to obtain justice elsewhere.

                   BLYSTONE: And just finally: Personally, it's been 12 years, your daughter,
                   a college student, was killed in Lockerbie bombing -- have you come
                   anywhere near closure?

                   JOHNSON: No, I think this -- we'll always have this with us until the day
                   we die, but it's becoming a little easier to live with it. That is about as far as I
                   can say -- we've taken many steps, and there are still steps to go.

                   BLYSTONE: Thanks very much, Glenn Johnson, the board chairman of one
                   of the three big American organizations of families of the victims of Pan Am
                   Flight 103 -- Linda.

                   STOUFFER: Richard Blystone in the Netherlands, thank you very much for
                   that.

                   And of course, this is a story that we're continuing to follow. As we
                   mentioned, the man who was found guilty, Ali Al-Megrahi, will face
                   sentencing in just about two hours. So we'll let you know what happens
                   when that happens.

                   CARROLL: Yes, of course -- and the judges in that case finding forensic
                   evidence on Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi's clothes, in his clothes linking him
                   to that bombing. So that was obviously a crucial part of the trial.

                   STOUFFER: Three Scottish judges heard this case in a special court set up
                   at Camp Zeist in the Netherlands and they had unanimous decisions on both
                   men. Again, one found guilty, one found not guilty.

                   We will have continuing coverage for you throughout the morning.

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